Curse

Arduin · Jan 07, 2010, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mcsnake85

Why ppl keep to be jealous of those things?You dont need a Obsidian Edge to deal 15-22 damage, just forge a simple sword from norn/asura/Vanguard and you are ok....if you have money and you can buy Obby ok, good for you but this dont change nothing.

Because the only way for you as a player to elevate you from the scrubs, is by means of rare skins. Be it armor, weapons or mini's. Titles are a possibility too. Everyone can finish the game. And at this point most people can complete the Elite Missions. So how can a person be the 'best' in Guild Wars, PvE-wise?

In a sense, Anet's goal of removing grind from the game by keeping everyone on par concerning weapon and armor stats (as in no more grinding for better equipment) spawned a whole new form of grind. The aesthetic grind. The grind for a rare skin, that are so awfully expensive the only people that are in possession of them are the lucky, the very smart, or the very grindy.

Zahr Dalsk · Jan 07, 2010, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduin

Because the only way for you as a player to elevate you from the scrubs, is by means of rare skins.

The scrubs have them, though. Have done so for ages. Way, way back to the "balanced" DoA tank'n'spank, probably even before that.

Mcsnake85 · Jan 07, 2010, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Oh i see...so you guyz think that this game is based on "SKINS" and not on "TALENT"???
I can fail killing a Iboga lv 1, but if i have a Obsidian Edge im the best player??
I can Elevate from other players because i have a BDS, but i cant know how to do spike with 100b?YES i saw 100b that cant know hot to spike by simply press 1-2-3-4...
PvP titles ARE Titles,all the rest is nothing, you can get titles leeching too (raptor farm,paying for runs/vanquishings/Speedbooks etc...).
I have a lot of "rare-Skin" weapons, because i think that other skins suck btw that dont make me best than another player....so i ask again for last time : what the sense to be jealous?I played a lot of game and in all games -1(GW) i've had reason to be jealous...sorry but here there is no reason..
Changing talk, i forgot to make a question : Why ppl speak bad of SF?You need Few Hours to make a perma and play with other players,make run,farm...Easy to use and easy to make, so why?I have all chars and if you ask me what i prefer i say ELEMENTALIST, i never say that perma is better...btw i have it, im ready to join UW or FOWSC, or SoO or dunno...btw i play all time Elementalist,i use it if i want farm...cant all player simply do this way?Or its hard play some Hours to make a perma???
I really dont understand, you have all to make one...you dont need waste money for elite/weapons on sin if you dont like it..just take base 70al armor a staff and daggers and you are rdy...you need 10/15 skills in total..so its not hard eh??

Tom Swift · Jan 07, 2010, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

The scrubs have them, though. Have done so for ages. Way, way back to the "balanced" DoA tank'n'spank, probably even before that.

True but when Arduin said, "The only way for you as a player to elevate you from the scrubs, is by means of rare skins. Be it armor, weapons or mini's. Titles are a possibility too. Everyone can finish the game. And at this point most people can complete the Elite Missions. So how can a person be the 'best' in Guild Wars, PvE-wise?" I don't think he meant it was a particularly good way to show off accomplishments - only that it is really the only means the game design allows.

By nature, people in a game want to show they have accomplished something - without the ability to show off in some way, people cease to play. Though I enjoy GW, one of its many design flaws is that ways to show what you have done are very limited.

Titles show only one at a time and then only if someone scrolls over your character in town - so they are essentially useless for this purpose.

Character level is capped at 20 - it does not work to distinguish one player from another

Weapon skins, rare minis etc are a poor way to show accomplishment but they really are the only avenue the game allows - possessing one shows you might be good at the game, happened to have a stroke of luck or, at least, played long enough to save the cash whether by farming or trading (or at least had a friend who was one of the above and gave you his stuff when he left the game).

No one claims rare skins and other aesthetic components are a good way of demonstrating accomplishment - just that it is only way ANet allows us to do so.

mrvrod · Jan 07, 2010, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenex Xclame

And that is the big problem with SF,yes there may be other stuff that are also overpowered.But SF is so overpowered that playing anything else is stupid and not a choice.

People keep saying to play something else if you dont like SF but that is not a real choice.

There are still people that say WoH is overpowered,but is it anywhere near SF?Of course not.

If you're playing a character and/or a profession that you don't enjoy, you have only yourself to blame. This is the PvE - Role Playing - portion of the game. If you want the stats and the speed and the leetness, go play a twitch shooter like BF2, or go the PvP route.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Swift

True but when Arduin said, "The only way for you as a player to elevate you from the scrubs, is by means of rare skins. Be it armor, weapons or mini's. Titles are a possibility too. Everyone can finish the game. And at this point most people can complete the Elite Missions. So how can a person be the 'best' in Guild Wars, PvE-wise?" I don't think he meant it was a particularly good way to show off accomplishments - only that it is really the only means the game design allows.

By nature, people in a game want to show they have accomplished something - without the ability to show off in some way, people cease to play. Though I enjoy GW, one of its many design flaws is that ways to show what you have done are very limited.

Titles show only one at a time and then only if someone scrolls over your character in town - so they are essentially useless for this purpose.

Character level is capped at 20 - it does not work to distinguish one player from another

Weapon skins, rare minis etc are a poor way to show accomplishment but they really are the only avenue the game allows - possessing one shows you might be good at the game, happened to have a stroke of luck or, at least, played long enough to save the cash whether by farming or trading (or at least had a friend who was one of the above and gave you his stuff when he left the game).

No one claims rare skins and other aesthetic components are a good way of demonstrating accomplishment - just that it is only way ANet allows us to do so.

If you feel the need to show your leetness to the rest of the PvE crowd, you have no idea what Role Playing is all about. If you need to show off some/any type of accomplishments, you should really check out the PvP side of GW. I've been playing this game for over 4 years. I've had more gold go through my storage than at least half the community. My Warrior has 5 elite armor sets (because that's what's needed for the HoM), she wears her Elite Kurzick armor, she holds a Gloom Shield, and she wields a Dead Sword. None of these items will cost you a ton of gold. The armor is the most expensive, the sword and shield could probably be gotten for 5k each. I don't care if you're not impressed by my armor, my sword, my shield! The only one I need to impress is MYself! Damn, when did the Call of Duty crowd invade GW?

Arduin · Jan 07, 2010, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrvrod

If you feel the need to show your leetness to the rest of the PvE crowd, you have no idea what Role Playing is all about. If you need to show off some/any type of accomplishments, you should really check out the PvP side of GW. ........ I don't care if you're not impressed by my armor, my sword, my shield! The only one I need to impress is MYself! Damn, when did the Call of Duty crowd invade GW?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mcsnake85

Oh i see...so you guyz think that this game is based on "SKINS" and not on "TALENT"???
I can fail killing a Iboga lv 1, but if i have a Obsidian Edge im the best player??
I can Elevate from other players because i have a BDS, but i cant know how to do spike with 100b?YES i saw 100b that cant know hot to spike by simply press 1-2-3-4...
......
I really dont understand, you have all to make one...you dont need waste money for elite/weapons on sin if you dont like it..just take base 70al armor a staff and daggers and you are rdy...you need 10/15 skills in total..so its not hard eh??

Some people indeed don't care about what other people think of them. I think at least you mrvrod got the same opinion. You think your armor is pretty, so you bought it and use it. Would that armor be 1k Ascalon armor, you would still wear it. I count myself to that crowd too.

But! There are people who think rare is prettiest. There are several of them in my alliance. As soon as a new weapon skin would be released (Tormented stuff, Obsidian Edge, Eternal Blade, Voltaic Spear, Bone Dragon Staff, Chaos stuff etc. they'll ditch the weapon they have been using, and go farm for the next one. Only to ditch that one when a new rare weapon is introduced.

That's why Guild Wars is about skins and aesthetics. There aren't many accomplishments left that aren't already done by the masses. Or skins that are readily available.

Of course, who am I to question those people? Maybe they indeed think the Obsidian Edge is a pretty weapon. But when some of those people spent SC FoW 7 days a week and spam the Allaince Chat with 'OMG!!!! I GOT OBBY EDGE FROM CHEST!!! and flash and ctrl-click the weapon every time I'm in a party with them, there's more than that person being glad about a pretty skin.

----

I'm sorry for going terribly OT by the way

Windf0rce · Jan 07, 2010, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mcsnake85

PvP titles ARE Titles,all the rest is nothing, you can get titles leeching too (raptor farm,paying for runs/vanquishings/Speedbooks etc...).

Just a quick note, titles can be just as 'tainted' in PvP as they are in PvE.

Commander title, Red Resign days & much more. No one respects Commander title, it is a complete joke.

Hero and Gladiator also have several past stories of degenerate builds that would allow anyone regardles of skill to farm good ranks.

Even Champion, stories of match manipulation at dead hours and other expoilts (such as when leaving quickly enough didn't lower a Guild's rating but the other Guild would get Champ point for winning, etc). How about the interrupt bots too?

Codex, see Champion. Match manipul.

All in all, no title is guaranteed measure of skill in PvP or PvE. Of course there are players who are skilled and their titles show it, but there are people who got their titles (PvP too) the most degenerate ways imaginable. At most, titles serve a measure of time spent playing, dedication, and may indicate how experienced a player is in a format (hence rank discrimination etc). But the PvP titles are not any better than PvE titles... they can be just as degenerate.

Mcsnake85 · Jan 07, 2010, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduin

Some people indeed don't care about what other people think of them. I think at least you mrvrod got the same opinion. You think your armor is pretty, so you bought it and use it. Would that armor be 1k Ascalon armor, you would still wear it. I count myself to that crowd too.

But! There are people who think rare is prettiest. There are several of them in my alliance. As soon as a new weapon skin would be released (Tormented stuff, Obsidian Edge, Eternal Blade, Voltaic Spear, Bone Dragon Staff, Chaos stuff etc. they'll ditch the weapon they have been using, and go farm for the next one. Only to ditch that one when a new rare weapon is introduced.

That's why Guild Wars is about skins and aesthetics. There aren't many accomplishments left that aren't already done by the masses. Or skins that are readily available.

Of course, who am I to question those people? Maybe they indeed think the Obsidian Edge is a pretty weapon. But when some of those people spent SC FoW 7 days a week and spam the Allaince Chat with 'OMG!!!! I GOT OBBY EDGE FROM CHEST!!! and flash and ctrl-click the weapon every time I'm in a party with them, there's more than that person being glad about a pretty skin.

----

I'm sorry for going terribly OT by the way

Maybe i wrote something wrong, im bad in english so i sorry about it.
I try to answer :
I lover rare skin too, i have bought/found them and im using them.Im using/buying elite armor too , BTW that wasnt the point..the point was: Someone say that ppl are jealous for all those things, just anwer that ppl dont need to be jealous and no sens to be jealous because all weapons have same stats...
My Idea is that Rare skins dont prove nothing,btw they are cool and i agree.
the first thing i say posts ago was: It is the first time that i play a game with nerfs/buffs and from this start all : Jealous,QQ about SF,rare/non rare skins etc...
I just think that all you need in this game is be good in play, not good in show rare skin because rare skin can be aquired from noobs too.
And i still dont undertand whats wrong with SF or all chars?Maybe who hate SF cant use it??

Mcsnake85 · Jan 07, 2010, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windf0rce

Just a quick note, titles can be just as 'tainted' in PvP as they are in PvE.

Commander title, Red Resign days & much more. No one respects Commander title, it is a complete joke.

Hero and Gladiator also have several past stories of degenerate builds that would allow anyone regardles of skill to farm good ranks.

Even Champion, stories of match manipulation at dead hours and other expoilts (such as when leaving quickly enough didn't lower a Guild's rating but the other Guild would get Champ point for winning, etc). How about the interrupt bots too?

Codex, see Champion. Match manipul.

All in all, no title is guaranteed measure of skill in PvP or PvE. Of course there are players who are skilled and their titles show it, but there are people who got their titles (PvP too) the most degenerate ways imaginable. At most, titles serve a measure of time spent playing, dedication, and may indicate how experienced a player is in a format (hence rank discrimination etc). But the PvP titles are not any better than PvE titles... they can be just as degenerate.

Oh ok,i can agree not a problem..btw PvE titles are easier to get with leeching or other..its just my opinion, i dont know all about PvP, so i can just tell what i say in last year.

Reformed · Jan 07, 2010, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduin

Because the only way for you as a player to elevate you from the scrubs, is by means of rare skins. Be it armor, weapons or mini's. Titles are a possibility too. Everyone can finish the game. And at this point most people can complete the Elite Missions. So how can a person be the 'best' in Guild Wars, PvE-wise?

Being good was never about aesthetics. The option to buy your way into prestige has always existed so it's a meaningless metric. On the other hand if you are constantly sought out by name for groups you must know on some level that you have some skill. There is also no best in my opinion for PvE but through my years in GW I have had the pleasure of playing with some truly exceptional players. Generally speaking these are not the title hunting type, at least not in the extreme, they are not overly flashy and not fabulously wealthy either. Sort of paradoxical given that they could easily accomplish everything the game has to offer.

Cuilan · Jan 07, 2010, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Swift

Character level is capped at 20 - it does not work to distinguish one player from another

Having a higher level cap doesn't show that much more if anything more. If the higher levels were just for show and not power, then people would not allow lower level players in groups.

Arduin · Jan 07, 2010, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mcsnake85

I just think that all you need in this game is be good in play, not good in show rare skin because rare skin can be aquired from noobs too.

There is no 'good in play' in PvE anymore. Just go to PvX and you have won. Speedclear shows it's not about conquering an elite area anymore, it's about conquering it as fast as possible.

So:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mcsnake85

Someone say that ppl are jealous for all those things, just anwer that ppl dont need to be jealous and no sens to be jealous because all weapons have same stats...

The only way to discern yourself from other people is by having rare skins. And people want to discern themselves, it's in our competitive genes.

Karate Jesus · Jan 07, 2010, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Break out the dart board, Anet.

I'd like a skill balance today please

Marvel-Kid · Jan 07, 2010, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Personally I'm glad they're they're buffing the War. It is in dire need of a buff. Hurray for Anet!

<

Symeon · Jan 07, 2010, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Can any Test Krewe members give us an update on their progress? Unless of course the update is today and you don't want to tell us.

Karate Jesus · Jan 07, 2010, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symeon

Can any Test Krewe members give us an update on their progress? Unless of course the update is today and you don't want to tell us.

^ that would be very nice. Don't break the NDA or anything, but I'd love to have an idea of when we need to update PvX.

HawkofStorms · Jan 07, 2010, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4thVariety

So it was ok to play when you were greedy for loot, but now that you had your fill, you are suddenly against it?

So those who don't like and generally don't use the shitty meta builds like me are jealous (even though I've gained significant wealth, BEFORE this existed)?

Those who don't like the shitty meta and do abuse it are selfish?

So... nobody is allowed to hate the shitty meta?

Axel Zinfandel · Jan 07, 2010, 08:16 PM // 20:16

I don't think anyone is denying that aesthetics do not equal skill. However in the masses eyes, it does. Flashier stuff means you have more money, and having more money means your better at GW, on a subconciously level.

This game gives PvEers little reason to play the game avidly, in terms of rewards. Getting experience for quests means little to nothing once your at level 20, and the gold you could easily get quicker doing a simple Bergen farm or something.

Naturally people turn to aesthetics as a way to grind, because like it or not people need grind for a MMO type game to be interesting, and will make grind if none exists.

niek2004 · Jan 07, 2010, 08:20 PM // 20:20

There is no skill update, anet will delete pvp to solve with the problems.

Karate Jesus · Jan 07, 2010, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by niek2004

There is no skill update, anet will delete pvp to solve with the problems.

Might as well get it over with :/